https://lemmy.world/post/49736885
If you follow AI news at all as part of your self-hosting interests, you may have become aware recently that open AI (the frontier lab between behind chat GPT) has admitted (loosely) culpability in an cyber attack against HuggingFace (the major repository of open-weight models.)
The details that present are somewhat sketchy, but the gist of it is that open AI seems to have given unrestricted access to a AI agent, which then attacked hugging face, who in a twist of deliciousness, used an open source agent to defend themselves.
I’d joke and tell you to make sure that you haven’t left any open ports on your router, but if you’re here reading this I think probably you know better than that.
Less comically, there’s a weird intersection here between self-hosting, sovereignty and encroachment by big tech that is worth pay attention to.
It should certainly spur people on to seriously consider self-hosting as much of their infrastructure as they can (and securing it) if this is the preview of things to come.
Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
I just wish I’d bought more SSDs.
The takeaway here is that anything connected to the internet can probably be compromised. Am I crazy for thinking that? I don’t think my home lab can keep up with openAI’s new attack dogs if huggingface can’t either
Not at all. Anything an attacker can connect to is a potential vector.
Keep in mind, this goes for outbound connections as well. If something is compromised server-side, and you or your software reach out to it, that’s also a potential vector. Less likely, since the attacker has to compromise that server and pass their attack off as legit traffic, but it’s possible.
Am I crazy for thinking that?
I don’t think so. It’s one of the reasons I go overboard in my server security and monitor my pfsense logs constantly.
OpenAI is trying to artificially plump themselves up before going for IPO. They “attacked” a vendor that dispenses LLM and LLM-adjacent products that are similarly aligned with OpenAI’s goals. It almost seems like it was a coordinated event to generate a sense of mystique around their premier models (à la Anthropic with Mythos).
In the AI evolution we find ourselves in, I have long looked at the very real possibilities of AI being used in a cyber attack. It’s is an obvious tool to me to use in such attacks. I am quite certain governments are experimenting with such capabilities. Where we used to use the old wardialing and sophisticated bots to jam communications when engaged in conflict, we would replace that with AI. I think that would be a natural progression of technology. For one, AI is relentless. It can find even the most minor soft spot in the ‘armor’ as it were, when programmed to do so.
We now use AI to find vulnerabilities in software like Linux which basically underpins the entire global internet infrastructure. It would only be obvious that nefarious actors, governmental or otherwise, would also use AI. It does present a lot of issues, but I honestly do not view this as alarming in as much as I see it as a natural technological progression. All technology since the dawn of time wields a double edged sword and that is inescapable.
I’ve long said AI desperately needs governmental regulation as much as I chafe against regulation which, in the hands of government, usually devolves into over regulation. Right now, it’s a wild wild west from AI rice cookers, to cyber attacks. Some look forward to the AI bubble bursting with glee. However, all that means to me is that the pieces left will be retooled into something else as history has revealed time and time again. I don’t think it’s a fad. I don’t think it’s going away. It may evolve into something else, but at it’s basis, I think AI is here to stay regardless of grassroots opposition.
What does self hosting look like in a world full of malicious AI agents?
I’m thinking of this post/thread from Veronica explains, where she explains that her hosted services are accessible only locally because tbe security headache isn’t worth it: https://explains.social/@veronica/statuses/01KWJCGV27JVBHP21E2JNWDBFH
As someone who doesn’t self-host but could and would want to, the state of AI has basically scared me off.
I am simpatico with her position.
For what it’s worth, self-hosting doesn’t mean you need to be able to reach all your services off-site.
LAN only access is perfectly valid and something that I prefer myself.
Case in point -
Last year I went to Japan for 5 weeks and rather than opening up dodgy ports to my home media services, I ended up taking a 128GB USB stick, my Chromecast and installing Nova Player.
https://github.com/nova-video-player/aos-AVP
Nova Player populates on device from your attached storage to create essentially a jellyfin like front-end. Install it, plug the chrome cast or whatever into HDMI on any TV and you’re off to the races.
It’s wonderful and it’s actually now my primary streaming media source in the house; I just plug in my hard drive to my router, Nova sees it and my media sources are cross-populated to all of my Android devices.
Yea, this “data at the edge” approach, not “on the wire” Is interesting to me and makes sense.
Basically regressing on the convenience/power of the internet because it just isn’t safe and easy anymore and for anything personal that isn’t a server -> many users, yoi basically ain’t gonna need it.
This is a big reason I only remotely access my services via TailScale / Wireguard.
Even if my highly restricted ISP let me open anything, I wouldn’t dare. I know for certain I don’t know as much as who/whatever is hunting for open ports out there. I have zero interest in instantly being assimilated into some botnet lol.
yeah - i am now thinking i want to move away from anything that leaves me exposed. i have a few services that are nice to be able to access remotely, but it’s time to reconsider how much i actually NEED to access those services.
Consider only exposing a VPN service, like Wireguard.
Then when you are away from home, it’s one tap / click to be back on your LAN again.
You don’t even need to lift a finger. I use WG Tunnel, which turns on my VPN as soon as I leave my WiFi. I’m always tunneled or home.
I think the problem has been slightly exaggerated. If you’re not hosting several dozen services, you can reduce your attack surface down to one Nginx server. For an even stricter setup, just enable mTLS.
