Sad news, I’m still impressed that they didn’t kill their Harmony servers though, fingers crossed !
how many times does logitech specifically, and these companies in general, have to do this before idiots stop buying this shit?
There need to be strong regulations to prevent this sort of Ewaste. As long as companies can get away with this they will.
And no, voting with your pocket book isn’t going to change their behavior.
if idiots stop buying this shit, they wont keep making it.
the problem is the idiots keep buying
No, this requires regulations to prevent massive amounts of Ewaste. Consumers can’t change this behavior.
Like right to repair or privacy. We need real regulations. Corporations are too big and powerful and even something like choice has been turned into choosing which shitty corp you want to buy from.
Blaming consumers for the behavior of corporations is a fallacy of capitalism… consumers act in their best interests, not necessary in everyone’s best interests, so we all suffer if everyone does that.
You don’t even have to, squeezebox owners never got a choice. It was cool that a hacker community built it even better after logi abandoned it 😁
Ive hated logitech for a while. Looks like my opinion of them wont be changing any time soon. I get no longer supporting products, but bricking them? And then giving a 15% off coupon for some products that they could later brick as well? Youd have to be a right fucking mug to buy anything logitech after this.
Nest bricked my security system (after magically installing Assistant on it [oh by the way it has an undocumented microphone]), at least they gave you $100… in gift cards to the fucking google store. Logitech isn’t even that smart.
I get no longer supporting products, but bricking them?
I think what’s happening in the background here is these “Internet of Trash” devices hook to cloud infrastructure for which the business no longer wants to pay.
If they were interested in actually building something useful, they would open up their API layers and add a way to link them to different services. But since they don’t give a fuck about you as a customer, they plan poorly as a business, and they have no ability to produce well-engineered software, instead they code everything so that it is hopelessly coupled (probably through hard-coded things up to and including certificates) with specific garbage they made, make it impossible to move to anything else, and then brick your shit.
Can’t brick my G500 and my Z5500s. Best in class, approaching decades old at this point.
But as with every company, profits over quality. Fuck em.
They did the same with their universal remotes. Fucking dead in this housre
There’s a good reason all stuff you buy is zigbee or zwave.
Otherwise this is an inevitably
or Matter
That’s about the only reason I’m still sticking with TP-LINK for switches.
hopefully you can eventually find something to replace them with. TP-Link doesn’t have a great track record imo. Poor build quality, bad software, extensive unpatched vulnerabilities, and accusations of spyware (I haven’t gone to the effort to confirm that point yet though.) I messed with them a few times doing network support for businesses. Hated them every time I touched them. Maybe the light switches aren’t as bad in all areas, but I doubt their networking is any better, it’s probably worse since it’s IoT.
All of mine are sequestered to their own vlan that can only talk to Home Assistant. But they do have ones that use matter now.
Love a good isolated vlan
See it’s shit like this that makes me want to set up a trebuchet just out of line of sight of their corporate HQ and return the bricked hardware with prejudice.
Unfortunately, Logitech ended support for their T1432 modal trebuchet last year.
And this is why i stick with Z-Wave/Insteon/etc. I have a local hardware controller that doesn’t have to be connected to the internet to work. It can be cloud controlled remotely, but if their service shut down tomorrow, it’d still be fully functional locally or if I exposed the server endpoint myself.
That’s the reason why I never buy a smart device I don’t control.
That’s any smart device. Unless you’re the one.doimg the updates.yoirself, they will all become obsolete as technology evolves. This is the case here too; sounds they just don’t have enough people using them to justify figuring out how to keep them working as new devices and platforms roll on. 9.5 years is an alright run, comparatively.
Just because it’s a “smart” service doesn’t mean it has to connect to the Internet or a server or the manufacturer. If it does neither, it can’t be turned off by them.
All my devices run local-only protocols. Nothing leaves my house. The devices that would be proprietary were reflashed to tasmota (fully open source, local only). Others are either Zigbee or Shelly. While Shelly has a cloud connection, it’s fully optional and disabled by default (including automatic updates). The hardware is also supported by tasmota, and reflashing is always just 5 minutes of effort away.
There is absolutely nothing that any manufacturer has to do to keep my stuff working. I have to do a little something (keep my tiny server on, basically). But more importantly there is nothing any manufacturer can do to stop my stuff from working.
That’s exactly what I do. I also have IoT devices that are still trucking along a decade later. I fully expect them to likely do a decade more.
Both Tasmota and ESPhome provide open source firmware for many IoT devices. They throw up a local API interface that other systems can talk to. Providing legacy support is as hard as using HTML put and get commands.
Depends on your definition of "smart’ I guess. ZigBee stuff like buttons and the like probably won’t become obsolete for a long time. I guess you could argue that ZigBee protocol updates could eventually brick them though. Good thing a lot of it is open source
The trick is to buy reasonably open devices, then provide the smarts yourself.
If it can talk to / be configured by HomeAssistant, and doesn’t require internet to work, it’ll probably be fine.
9.5 years is ancient in smart home devices.
Though, any company that stops supporting a device should be legally required to open source all dependencies required to operate it, or provide a full refund.
9.5 years is ancient for smartphones, not for something that is supposed to work indefinitely like a switch
Also, that time is the best case scenario. When they stopped selling those switches? 3 years ago? Unless they discontinued them almost immediately after launch, there are customers with a much shorter timeframe
9.5 years is ancient in smart home devices.
Note to self. Don’t buy smart devices. 9.5 years is like a sneeze to me. I still have a Nintendo NES from the late 1980s still in working order. I mean, I modded the video out, and replaced the pin connector. But it works.
Except for a fairly tiny niche community of users still using them for nostalgia reasons, the NES is absolutely also ancient and obsolete in every way and has been for several decades.
Is it? It still works while so-called newer/better technology goes to the landfill within years.
Yes it is, because the HW is completely unnecessary, you can emulate it perfectly on a potato. It only serves a nostalgic purpose, which is also fine, but in all other aspects it is completely obsolete.
emulate it perfectly
This is a far stronger claim than any of the developers for these emulators claim.
I have two Yale Zwave locks that are at least 11 years old and still kicking. The key factor to this is the non reliance on the cloud.
Zigbee, Zwave, Esphome and other non-cloud will always work longer than any cloud based solution that is at risk of being shutdown, use a outdated or no longer available app, become a subscription, etc.
I agree with you that they should be required by law to open their code and unlock the devices but I doubt this will happen any time soon.
We absolutely need this to be illegal. The discount coupon they offered to customer ws insulting.
It’s a switch, there shouldn’t be anything to go obsolete.
It’s the smart part that goes obsolete.
@WhatAmLemmy @saltesc I think the handed over Squeezebox when deciding they’d done enough squeezing?
It’s one thing to become obsolete because a new technology appears. It’s another thing for the rug to pulled from under you. You can still use old tech just fine, but not if the publisher decides to brick all your devices.
Not true, zwave and ZigBee are not required to use the manufacturers apps and you can setup a home assistant server on a raspberry pi in about 20 minutes and never worry about planned obsolescence like this. This is why I never buy WiFi only smart devices that need internet access and an account on an app to control.
9.5 years is pretty good if you think of it as tech, but the problem is that smart home products are often home appliances. Some are even home fixtures. So yeah people feel cheated when something like a light switch gets dropped from service or demands a subscription
This is why it’s a great idea to refuse to install everything that’s possible, including smart switches, cameras, lights etc. that rely on the good will of some company to keep running.
Honeywell wifi thermostats worked great until they didn’t. Now their servers are often slow or down. TCP-Link smart bulbs reset regularly if their Internet access is blocked because TCP-Link desperately needs to keep track of when everyone’s lights are on and off. Plex wants us to log into their servers to watch content we’re hosting ourselves. Too bad if their servers are down. Security camera companies have been disabling local storage options without warning for years.
Logitech actually planned to introduce a subscription mouse. Hopefully at some point people will get sick of this shit, refuse to put up with it and their sales will tank.
This is why it’s a great idea to refuse to install everything that’s possible, including smart switches, cameras, lights etc. that rely on the good will of some company to keep running.
Even then you can get fucked over. I’ve used Hue smart lights for years, and back when I bought them, you didn’t need an account to use them, just an app and network connection. Years later, they forced an online login for the app, requiring you to be online to interface with the bulbs. You can kind of work around it with Home Assistant, but you still need the account now to add the bulbs, and I don’t think scenes work without an account either now.
But you can buy a 10-20€ zigbee stick and connect them directly to home assistant. No hue bridge or account required.
I have a Zigbee antenna. Will have to double check. I’m pretty sure the lights work with the antenna, but scenes are only possible if you’ve integrated them (generally via hue through something like Homekit).
Zigbee2mqtt can do scenes, no problem.
The only thing you miss is the hue app.
When I was in the market for bulbs Hue was just starting that BS. They lost that sale and I’ve been in the process of removing network access for everything possible and severely restricting it when not. My old Honeywell wifi thermostat is gone, smart appliances are disconnected from wifi, and TVs are blocked by my firewall when they aren’t actually being used. Next up, Graphene OS.
Sometimes I’d like to move to a tropical island with no news or Internet at all.
I want to move to a cabin in the mountains near the ocean. Maybe the northern fjords of scandinavia. Somewhere cold. Fuck sitting still and sweating. But otherwise I’m on board with this idea too. lol
15% off a logitech device purchase for the complete removal of a 100$ smart switch. that’s a slap to the face “Thank’s for being a customer here’s a coupon you can only use if you continue being a customer”
And can only use that 15% off in their boutique store where stuff is more expensive than other outlets
@Wispy2891 just wanting to say, best avatar i’ve seen for a while. love it.
I don’t see then unless I go onto profiles, but man that was an instant hit of nostalgia
A certain operating system whose name I won’t mention is ending support a day before and now this? WTF is wrong with this world?
I think that was the operating system they told us was going to be the last version of that operating system ever. And then they released another one. Weird
An operating system ending support isn’t in any way the same as bricking a product.
People can safely use Windows 10 online for the next decade as long as they follow basic online safety.
People can safely use Windows 10 online for the next decade as long as they follow basic online safety.
This is a fucking braindead take. A few months, a year, maaaybe? But a decade? No chance in hell.
Absolutely you will be able to. How many previous versions of Windows have exploits that don’t require the user to do anything other than be connected to the Internet for their machine to be compromised?
Every single one. Lol.
So windows 8 computers that connect to the Internet just become compromised?
It’s literally happened to every single version of Windows, 10 and below.
If you disable the firewall and AV, sure, you can get in trouble. That’s not following even the most basic online safety steps though.
Don’t give out infosec advice if you have no fucking clue what you’re talking about.
You think windows 10 just becomes unsafe because it stops getting security updates?
Lol.
Not immediately, no, but saying you can safely continue using it if you follow Internet use best practices is flat out wrong.
Is it? How?
Because best practices for connecting an unsupported operating system to the Internet are to not do it.
Even if the OS is safe on the day support ends, a critical vulnerability might be found just a few days later. It’s also possible that an exploit has already been found that the bad actor is sitting on it until support ends.
Even if that doesn’t happen, software developers are going to drop support for the OS and vulnerabilities found in those applications could be used to gain ingress.
No amount of “being careful using the Internet” is going to prevent hacking if the system has exploits. If you context a fresh install of XP to the Internet, your system will be compromised in a matter of minutes.
It’s not flat out wrong though. Best practices for when your OS is EOL are different to best practices for a currently supported OS.
All those “experiments” where people go online with a new install of xp and are compromised in minutes disable windows firewall and don’t use any antivirus software. You seem like an expert - is that best practice? Do regular people just turn off the Windows firewall and disable their AV?
Believe it or not, firewalls and AV still stop unpatched security vulnerabilities.
Basic online safety to you and me can be a bit high-level for many, disproportionately so for those who are going to remain on Windows 10. I don’t like Windows, either 10 or 11, but most of the hardware losing support with 10’s EOL can run a secure and modern operating system just fine, and Windows 11 could have been that if not for the overhead of Microsoft’s telemetry and other bloat. Home users lacking computer proficiency are being thrown under the bus so that Microsoft can generate metric tons of ewaste as they force their enterprise customers to purchase new hardware. With fresh new license keys.
Enterprises dont need to buy new license keys every time they buy a new machine. That’s the whole point of Microsoft’s enterprise licensing.
Well, unless some exploit is discovered that doesn’t require user interaction. Then merely being connected puts your device at risk.
And given historical precedent, it’s going to be a matter of time until one is discovered.
A very long matter.
This has literally happened repeatedly in the past. Just last year an exploit came to light affecting Windows XP that was so bad Microsoft had to release another security patch for it. WannaCry and NotPetya malwares used similarly severe exploits in 2017.
Again though - best practice for using an EOL OS in 2025 mean that an attack like wannacry wouldn’t affect you, since you wouldn’t have the SMB ports exposed to the internet. You’d also have AV software - Defender at a minimum, which is fantastic - and the Windows firewall on.
Windows XP came out in 2001. Wannacry was 16 years later. Windows XP was from basically the beginning of the consumer internet, a different era.
Remember when the stuff we bought actually used to be owned by us, to be used by us, was able to be repaired by us? Now everything is scamware, licenses, and utter crap with threats of legal retaliation if you open, manipulate, or in any way change the product you “bought” from them.
So basically, Logitech sold these devices, decided nah, we’re done, and has given you garbage, while your ROI will never be captured.
Boycotting Logitech is easy moving forward; Don’t buy their crap.
Vote with your wallet.
Honestly, I think if companies were forced to deal with the electronic waste they create, they wouldn’t be so chill about bricking devices like this. I really wish there was a law that dictated any electronics you output, you are required to take back. Then maybe we wouldn’t have as many situations like this today.
Germany has that law and it doesn’t change anything. Although part of the reason why might be that no one actually brings their devices back, instead just throwing them in the trash
The internet memes will have me believe that Germans are super anal about making sure that trash is correctly sorted.
Is there a bin for ewaste next to the glass, cans and plastic bins?
No, you bring it back to where you bought it and they need to take care of it. And it is not for every electronic, but only the big stuff (oven, washing machine). Which makes it a hassle mostly, so people don’t do it.
Smaller electronics you can bring to the communal waste collector, they should do the further sorting and recycling.
So no extra bins, I’m afraid.
Boycotting Logitech is easy moving forward; Don’t buy their crap.
You’re like 5 years too late on that for me. I bought a mouse in 2019. And in 2020 the mouse died. Wouldn’t even turn on. Wouldn’t charge. Dead.
I call up logitech, and ask what my options are. Basically my options are “fuck you”. Couldn’t even send it in for repair at all.
Compare this to 2005. I had a mouse in those days I paid $200 for. Which in those days was quite a bit. My then girlfriend broke my mouse. So I called logitech to ask how much it cost to fix. I had the mouse about 2-3 years at that point. So I knew it wasn’t under warrenty, but I figure maybe repair is cheaper than buying a new one.
Guy on the phone says “Nah, I’ll just ship you one”. And I was confused. I asked “Oh. How much is that?” And he says “Don’t even worry about it. Lets just send you a replacement.”
Week later I had a free replacement on my doorstep. Instant recurring customer.
But now? Between deminishing product quality, disappearing customer service, and enshitified policies, I no longer feel like I’m a logictech customer for the past 5 years. This after being a huge cheerleader of theirs since the early 2000s. Maybe late 90s.
These companies do not seem to get that the easiest way to generate consistant revenue is with repeat business. I’m no longer a logitech customer, but I still have a lot of logitech products. Whenever they die, they’ll be replaced with something else.
I would buy a G5 every few years until the end of time if they still made them. Profit clearly isn’t the driving motivator of the post capitalist world we inhabit.
And what exactly will you replace your logitech stuff with? they’re all going down this path now.
honestly if they still make the only mice that don’t look like a gaming router they might still have me … on the second hand market at least.
I’m the same with Roccat / now Turtle Beach. It’s not even their policies, but their hardware is easy to repair yourself if its a small fix, and i hadn’t any device die on me yet in the last 10 years where it wasn’t selfinflicted a.k.a drown the Keyboard in half a liter of soda - the second time; sadly the liquid reached the rgb-ic which shorted so hard that it melted before i could do anything.
Their driver support for linux could be better tho (have to switch to the windows VM and use USB passthrough to configure). has anyone a recommendation for gaming keyboard/mice which support macros and multiple layers under linux?
I did have my roccat keyboard die on me after less than a year, but all I had to do was send them a picture of it with the cable cut and they sent me a be one.
Basically none, if you want user friendly macro and layers your basically stuck to windows. That or your doing bullshit jank that barely works, breaks frequently and requires way too much effort for no good results.
Its one of the better examples of Linux being dog shit at being user friendly.
The most common excuse I see is it’s not safe and secure so it’s not supported. Or you need to just use an abandoned app from a random GitHub that’s 9 years old only works on x11 and requires a blood sacrifice.
Yeah there is one project for wayland which creates a virtual input device and hooks into the hotkey system in kde plasma, but it’s jank af and adding more than one macro bugs out.
It doesn’t seem too complicated tho, might be a good beginner project for updating my 25 year old coding skills.
I read the title as "Logitech will bring new smart home buttons on October 15” and I thought “hmm new proprietary iot shit, I wonder when they’re going to brick them”
Looking forward to Louis Rossmann’s inevitable video on this.
They’re also bricking the vertical mouse I got in 2022 because apparently it’s too much to ask to expect a $75 mouse to work for 4 years.
How? Is the mouse reliant on their servers to operate?
How are they bricking it? Is that something that other Logitech vertical mouse owners need to worry about?
I wasn’t clear but I meant that their build quality has gone down significantly since the 90s when they developed a good reputation and market share. A single click starts to randomly register as a double click over time.
Ah, well, if you’ve got an hour and are fairly handy…
That’s not them bricking it though. Yes it’s shitty build quality, but that is an entirely different issue than them bricking equipment that still is very much functional from a HW perspective.
Personally, I see planned obsolescence as the same thing. It’s all to force you to buy new stuff whether you want to or not.
Right, it’s using a metaphor, drawing a link between the classic definition of bricking and an overall pattern of otherwise selling a product that becomes non useful. Implying that this outcome is fundamental and spans specific vehicles for getting there.
Yeah no you’re just using the wrong words to describe your issue.
Ploopy time!
